DUST Search - Heavies UP?

Buzzwords wrote:

people talk about the heavy suit itself as if it is some huge boon. i submit that it is in fact, a liability.

the last build should have been all the proof you need to show that there is more to survivability than raw buffer HP. why was the scout a perfectly valid frontline infantry option? because mobility, regeneration, and size are ALL factors in survivability as well. all factors in which the heavy is DEAD last.

mobility and size i shouldn't need to explain. the heavy is slow and huge, and therefore very easy to hit.

regeneration is an aggregate of several factors, potential armor repair, shield recharge rate, shield recharge delay, the ability to avoid fire long enough for the shield to recharge at all, and even the ratios of shield to armor. (best recharge stats in the world wouldn't matter much if max shield was 1)

looking at all these, the heavy is ALSO terrible. it's buffer of hitpoints is acquired mainly from armor, not shields. it's poor slot layout heavily restricts its potential armor regeneration. the low shield hp it has also comes with terrible recharge stats. so this puts the heavy dead last in the class of regeneration.

one could argue that you could get around this poor regeneration by having a logi bro nearby with a repair kit, but you know whats even better than 1 heavy and 1 logi repairing him? 2 assaults both shooting their guns at the enemy...

all these factors combine to make heavy suits surprisingly easy to kill in anything but a toe to toe DPS race, and even if the heavy wins that, he'll lose the next one because he'll more than likely START it half dead. the best case scenario for the heavy is to die the death of a thousand cuts.

and that doesn't even get into the fact that the heavy lacks an equipment slot. so it's also dead last in utility.

Buzzwords wrote:

if i can get kills with a stick, does that make sticks a valid and balanced weapon?

you can talk about managing to go positive with it all day, but the fact of the matter is i was a serious business heavy 3 builds ago. i managed about a 2:1 KDR with it then.

i've since been trapped into the heavy starting role ever since (every build i mean to delete my character and choose a new starting profession, but i always forget until i've played enough games that it really doesn't matter)

the fact of the matter is i now do BETTER in militia assault equipment than in basic heavy equipment. we can prattle on about personal playstyle all day, but i probably didn't suddenly get ******** at heavy suits as a new build came out, and suddenly get awesome at assault suites at the same time. (at the last wipe my kdr was about 6:1 that's triple what i was getting as a heavy, at it's BEST)


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Mira Adari Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.10.03 17:52:00 - [1] - Quote Heavy is not UP. Yes, he is slower, but he has more health. And he is the only one able to use heavy weaponry. He is good against vehicles with a Forge Gun and good against hordes of infantry attacking from the front with a HMG. Against a shotgun to the back, or a sniper from far away, he is useless, but so are assaults or logis. It always depends on the equipment. You just have to know what fit to field. Are there many vehicles? Bring a forge gun. Are there only infantry on open range? Bring a HMG. Are there fast enemies in CQC? Field something more suitable to the situation. Noone prevents you from using an AR, sniper rifle or shotgun with a heavy. Make multiple fits to be versatile, even if you insist on using heavy suits exclusively. Do I cry about my shotgun being underpowerd, when I spawn a mile away from the next enemy, or my sniper rifle when I spawn in CQC? Bring the right equipment to an encounter and you will dominate. Yes, the PS spams are a problem, but they are not intended to be that frequent.
Mira Adari Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 79	Posted - 2012.10.03 20:42:00 - [2] - Quote Buzzwords wrote: people talk about the heavy suit itself as if it is some huge boon. i submit that it is in fact, a liability. the last build should have been all the proof you need to show that there is more to survivability than raw buffer HP. why was the scout a perfectly valid frontline infantry option? because mobility, regeneration, and size are ALL factors in survivability as well. all factors in which the heavy is DEAD last. mobility and size i shouldn't need to explain. the heavy is slow and huge, and therefore very easy to hit. regeneration is an aggregate of several factors, potential armor repair, shield recharge rate, shield recharge delay, the ability to avoid fire long enough for the shield to recharge at all, and even the ratios of shield to armor. (best recharge stats in the world wouldn't matter much if max shield was 1) looking at all these, the heavy is ALSO terrible. it's buffer of hitpoints is acquired mainly from armor, not shields. it's poor slot layout heavily restricts its potential armor regeneration. the low shield hp it has also comes with terrible recharge stats. so this puts the heavy dead last in the class of regeneration. one could argue that you could get around this poor regeneration by having a logi bro nearby with a repair kit, but you know whats even better than 1 heavy and 1 logi repairing him? 2 assaults both shooting their guns at the enemy... all these factors combine to make heavy suits surprisingly easy to kill in anything but a toe to toe DPS race, and even if the heavy wins that, he'll lose the next one because he'll more than likely START it half dead. the best case scenario for the heavy is to die the death of a thousand cuts. and that doesn't even get into the fact that the heavy lacks an equipment slot. so it's also dead last in utility. You all seem to be under the impression that all suits should perform equally in any given situation. Why bother having different suits then? The heavy suit is best at mid range. In cramped quarters or on long range he is inferior (bested by scout and assault respectively). Adapt or die. If you bring the wrong tools to an encounter, you lose. Don't field a Forge Gun/HMG heavy on a small ambush map with tight corridors and much cover, field it on big maps, that offer enough cover from snipers, but allow you to see scouts before you are in their effective range. I won't say that you will always lose in the first case or always win in the second, but you should know your strengths and weaknesses. Buzzwords wrote: if i can get kills with a stick, does that make sticks a valid and balanced weapon? you can talk about managing to go positive with it all day, but the fact of the matter is i was a serious business heavy 3 builds ago. i managed about a 2:1 KDR with it then. i've since been trapped into the heavy starting role ever since (every build i mean to delete my character and choose a new starting profession, but i always forget until i've played enough games that it really doesn't matter) the fact of the matter is i now do BETTER in militia assault equipment than in basic heavy equipment. we can prattle on about personal playstyle all day, but i probably didn't suddenly get ******** at heavy suits as a new build came out, and suddenly get awesome at assault suites at the same time. (at the last wipe my kdr was about 6:1 that's triple what i was getting as a heavy, at it's BEST) Seems like your playstyle was suited best for assault suits to begin with and other issues (that are now fixed) allowed you to still be effective with a heavy suit.